Thursday Jun 05, 2025
4 Issues with the Telepathy Tapes Podcast EP 12 (3rd in my Autism and Psychic Abilities series)
In this episode, I talk about 4 possible issues with the Telepathy Tapes podcast AND share a great resource for further reading. I hope I've offered a more nuanced look at the Telepathy Tapes podcast in this episode (which is the 3rd in what has become my Autism and Psychic Abilities series) than I did in my previous episodes!
The first two episodes are:
- Autism and Psychic Experience EP 10 (#1 in series)
- Autistic Traits and Psychic Abilities EP 11 (#2 in series)
The resource I mentioned in the podcast is:
SarahCook.substack.com/p/for-the-birds-radical-empathy
This is an excellent article and a really good Substack to follow.
You can also follow my Substack if you're so inclined at:
If you like my content, please follow the podcast!
Full transcript follows. If you need closed captioning (or the transcript is cut off), please listen via the podbean app or at AutisticPOV.com (https://www.autisticpov.com/).
Full Transcript for EP 12
0:01
Welcome to Autistic POV. My name is Barbara Graver and I started this podcast to share a bit of my journey as a late diagnosed autistic. Hey everybody, this is Barbara Graver. Thank you for joining me today on Autistic POV. This is our third episode in what has kind of become a series on psychic ability.
0:31
I recorded episode one after I discovered the telepathy tapes far later than everybody else on the internet, and we'll talk a bit about that. And then I recorded episode two once I learned a little bit more about the podcast. And I talked about a lot of other things in these episodes. I talked about
0:49
my own experiences and I talked about parapsychology and a little bit about the ruling scientific paradigm in our society. But I talked about the telepathy tapes a lot too. And so I wanted to speak just a little bit on that in this episode because when I did the first episode, I was really excited to discover the podcast.
1:12
And then when I did the second episode and I was a little more aware of some of the controversy around it, I was a little more dialed back. But if you're not familiar with the podcast, it's a podcast about telepathy. and in it they feature several different non-speaking autistic individuals who are demonstrating telepathic abilities.
1:35
And it's really compelling, compelling podcast, but a lot of people have had a problem with it. And looking at it a little more critically than I maybe did initially, I could appreciate that. I think there are a few issues around it. So I wanted to just kind of share my take on that.
1:52
And I think the one problem is that we have a very materialistic mindset. There's a lot of prejudice against anything that is in any way immaterial, non-local, psychic. That's always, always, always going to be challenged. So talked about that, I think, in the first episode. I'll link to all of them. Number two,
2:16
which I talked about in the second episode in this series, I think there's just kind of a general disregard for the lived experience of autistic people. That's very pervasive in our society. So that's another issue that has played a part in generating controversy around this podcast. Number three,
2:35
I think that some people have raised concerns about the potential for exploitation and of non-speaking autistics and their families. And I think that's valid. I think that's something that's worth discussing. And also there is a lot of confusion around augmented and alternative communication and facilitated communication, which is somewhat different.
2:58
So there are a lot of things that kind of come into play. And this All of this was a lot for me to take on. I'm not sure I would have taken it on if I'd realized how much there was to it. But I am glad I did.
3:12
I'm glad I did because exploring this helped me increase my understanding of autism as a spectrum, which I think I'll talk about a little more in the next episode. It helped me kind of come to terms with some of my own experience. It helped me organize my thoughts.
3:29
But I was a little bit all over the place when I did it. So kind of want to try to sum it up a little. As far as the first and second points, the scientific community and the prejudice against the lived experience of autistic people, I think I've discussed that enough. Number four,
3:47
talking about augmented and assisted communication, I think it's absolutely valid, but not everyone understands it. And more relevantly, the more variables you put into research and the more complex it becomes. And when you're trying to research anything to do with psi, telepathy, precognition, clairvoyance, whatever it may be,
4:11
it's already difficult and it's already going to be challenged like crazy. So having that extra variable of the communication devices does make this more complex, definitely. So those are the four things I kind of see with issues with the podcast. However, I don't mean to say that I discount it. I found it very convincing.
4:37
I found it very convincing and it spoke to me in a a different way to look at the spectrum and it validated some of my own experience and it just it made me aware of things that I wasn't really aware of before but I
4:59
did want to say I understand that there are issues around it and I understand why and I wanted to speak just a little bit about my third point about exploitation and And to me, there is a potential for exploitation with this. I read a book by William Stillman, which was called Autism and the God Connection.
5:20
And I really liked that book. I liked a lot of what he had to say. But I felt like he was kind of romanticizing non-speaking autism. And I think because my particular situation, I am a late diagnosed autistic. I have a child who's autistic and I have another child who's in a power chair. And everything that
5:43
RFK said about autistic people could apply to my child in the power chair he's not autistic but a lot of those things apply and that is no easy road and for parents who have children who in addition to being non-speaking may require lifetime care That's a difficult thing to take on. And people are vulnerable.
6:08
People are definitely vulnerable. And I think that we have to be wary of romanticizing something that is a very difficult situation for some people. So I do think there are issues around it, definitely. But I also think that there's something there. I do think there's something there.
6:26
I do feel that some autistic traits like sensitivity and pattern recognition and do tend to occur in proximity to psychic abilities. And I think when people are challenged in a certain area, they do tend to develop compensatory abilities. And I think that is one way to look at psychic abilities, definitely, is compensating for other issues.
6:54
And I don't have a whole lot to say in this episode, but I just wanted to kind of share that, that I realize it's a complicated and nuanced And I also want to share a resource. Let me find it here. I follow quite a few different people on Substack.
7:14
And one Substack I really like is called For the Birds. And this is written by Sarah Teresa Cook. And she did an article on the telepathy tape. So I'm going to link to it. But it's called Radical Empathy, the telepathy tapes and the trouble with coherence and the real people we're harming when we wholly dismiss the podcast,
7:32
which is very good, much more comprehensive than what I'm giving you. And I'm going to link to that below. But I do think that we have to be kind of careful with things like this. But I do not think we should dismiss it out of hand. And I think a lot of prejudicial stuff, both scientific and cultural,
7:52
comes into this, certainly. And I just wanted to kind of say that. I also wanted to speak to a couple of mistakes I made when I was doing this. I used the phrase nonverbal, not understanding that nonverbal is incorrect, that non-speaking is the correct phrase. And I was thinking nonverbal, like verbal contract, written contract.
8:16
And that is a legitimate definition of nonverbal, but really verbal speaks to language. not only speaking, although culturally it's kind of used to represent speaking, but the more correct term is non-speaking, not non-verbal. So I wanted to mention that. And also I said, I think in the second podcast,
8:36
I talked about how science can't really help us with understanding psychic abilities. And I was more thinking of science in terms of the actual anatomy of the brain, because I don't personally feel the brain generates consciousness. And I stand by that. I think there's a limit.
8:52
how much studying the brain can tell us about non-local abilities like psychic ability. But I also think that science is much broader than that. And obviously, parapsychology is a science that can help us understand these things. So it's not true that science can't help. It's just maybe true that biology has its limits.
9:17
So I did want to mention that. And I'm going to be, this is just a short podcast, just kind of correcting my past episodes. But I did want to mention that going forward, I'm going to be continuing to talk about autism and psychic ability and autistic traits, obviously.
9:34
But I'm going to be doing it more from my personal perspective. And it's nothing against the content in the telepathy tapes or anything that has been written about it necessarily. It's just... I'm better off, I feel, if I stick with my own lived experience. I don't really feel qualified upon reflection to talk about other people's lived experience.
9:56
So I'm probably not going to do that or at least not do it often going forward. But I am going to be talking about, I'm going to be talking about psychic ability and autism because I'm writing this memoir and it's coming up and coming up and coming up,
10:10
even though it would be easier for me if it didn't. It just has to be part of it. So we'll be talking about that. And I will be talking a little bit more about the spectrum. And that's what I kind of like to touch on in the next episode, like my evolving understanding of the autism spectrum,
10:30
part of which was sparked by this exploration of the telepathy tapes. And I do recommend the blog article on Radical Empathy. And I'm going to link to all that stuff in the description. And go back. If you didn't listen to my first two episodes, go back. I mean,
10:46
I think some of the comments I made about the telepathy tapes weren't as nuanced as they should have been. But I think the information I gave on psychic abilities and parapsychology was okay, was fine. So you may want to listen to it. And next time, I'm still doing the first and third Fridays.
11:05
Next time, I'm going to be talking a little bit more about the spectrum. And if you would like to follow the show, please feel free to do that. And you can also find me on Substack. The name of my Substack is writing on the spectrum, but the URL is barbaragraver.substack.com.
11:24
So I'll put that link in the description too. So that's it for now. Kind of a short episode, but I just wanted to clarify a few things and give you this resource of the blog article. So that's it. I will see you guys later this month.
11:39
Until then, this is Barbara Graver of Autistic POV, and thank you very much for listening.
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